Baseball ⚾️ Watching this UCLA vs Gonzaga game...We’re so close YET

[BoomsMD]

So far away. We were more than good enough to beat UCLA. However, this game highlights the basketball acumen and dog mentality divide between our team and individual players. We don’t have ONE Juzang, Riley or Jacquez from UCLA or a Suggs, Timme, Remhard, Kispert or Ayayi from Gonzaga. When these guys want to make a play, they are skilled enough to make things happen.

At this time, none of our more talented players approach this level of combined dog mentality and skill. The closest player we have presently is Jahvon Quinerly. He just doesn’t finish as well because he lacks the strength and rise at the rim. I do think Quinerly will be much better next season.

What say you?

 

[coffee89]

I think the Zags gave Timme room to work in OT. They spread the floor and made it one on one without UCLA being able to send the double. Riley is the most underated big man in the tourney. He was UCLA's silent killer in the tourney and a great shot blocker on D.

 

[budog]

Gonzaga got the late charge go their way to where they blew the no call as Campbell plowed over Herb late. Glad UCLA is done.

ROLL TIDE!!!!

 

[PlaidandParquet]

byebye mick

 

[Bocat69]

We don't have a player as talented as Juzang but overall Bama is a much better team than UCLA. We would beat them eight out ten games we played them. The only thing this team was missing was rim protection and a big that can get you a bucket every now and then in the paint. Gonzaga would have had a hard time keeping our players from getting to the rim. I don't think people realize how close this Bama team was from contending for a Championship.

 

[StablerCountry]

We don't have a player as talented as Juzang but overall Bama is a much better team than UCLA. We would beat them eight out ten games we played them. The only thing this team was missing was rim protection and a big that can get you a bucket every now and then in the paint. Gonzaga would have had a hard time keeping our players from getting to the rim. I don't think people realize how close this Bama team was from contending for a Championship.

If they could hit free throws, they could have been here. Blew it themselves at the free throw line. Then if refs had called fouls correctly, hack on Gary, charge on Herb, they still might have won. I take the factor they controlled the most. Free throw shooting was main cause of defeat.

 

[Sweetlou10]

I don’t get the so far away part. We outplayed UCLA everywhere but the free throw line.

 

[HOUNDZTOOTH1]

I think we all may want to get what All the Gonzaga players are drinking. Now that is the way a basketball game should be played. Kudos to UCLA and ZAGS.

 

[BoomsMD]

I don’t get the so far away part. We outplayed UCLA everywhere but the free throw line.

We were clearly good enough when enough players played to their ability. I am speaking in terms of us having enough players aka critical mass of players that can get to the rim and convert, a big that can control the lane and score at will from a variety of angles or a perimeter player that can create space off the dribble and take over a game. I’m with you. But, looking at those teams last night, I saw a clear delineation in talent, skill and alpha dog mentality. If the basketball was a two-edged sword, that court would’ve been littered with blood, guts and body parts last night.

The one player that Bama possesses who comes close to exhibiting the combination of skill, athletic talent and alpha mentality is Jahvon Quinerly. I sincerely believe there is another level of performance that he’s yet to approach. I think he needs to commit to the physical development process and refine his basketball instincts. He lost something with the layoff and it was just resurfacing at the end of the NCAA tournament.

 

[PlaidandParquet]

I don’t get the so far away part. We outplayed UCLA everywhere but the free throw line.

Pretty much agree

 

[anon_z8qxv7qt5719f]

We were clearly good enough when enough players played to their ability. I am speaking in terms of us having enough players aka critical mass of players that can get to the rim and convert, a big that can control the lane and score at will from a variety of angles or a perimeter player that can create space off the dribble and take over a game. I’m with you. But, looking at those teams last night, I saw a clear delineation in talent, skill and alpha dog mentality. If the basketball was a two-edged sword, that court would’ve been littered with blood, guts and body parts last night.

The one player that Bama possesses who comes close to exhibiting the combination of skill, athletic talent and alpha mentality is Jahvon Quinerly. I sincerely believe there is another level of performance that he’s yet to approach. I think he needs to commit to the physical development process and refine his basketball instincts. He lost something with the layoff and it was just resurfacing at the end of the NCAA tournament.

I think the only thing we lack is "consistency of play and effort" from those players that can make a difference. JQ picked up and went beyond in the second half of the year. Ellis and Gary really got started towards the end. We lacked consistency from Primo, Shack, Reese and Petty all season. Everyone knew it, and that's when Herb (because of leadership) tried to do too much and it started hurting us when he wasn't able to push himself beyond ability and he couldn't play within himself. It seemed at times that some were intentionally trying to tank. I think we would've been better off mentally if Petty would've been let go in December.

 

[cola68]

So far away. We were more than good enough to beat UCLA. However, this game highlights the basketball acumen and dog mentality divide between our team and individual players. We don’t have ONE Juzang, Riley or Jacquez from UCLA or a Suggs, Timme, Remhard, Kispert or Ayayi from Gonzaga. When these guys want to make a play, they are skilled enough to make things happen.

At this time, none of our more talented players approach this level of combined dog mentality and skill. The closest player we have presently is Jahvon Quinerly. He just doesn’t finish as well because he lacks the strength and rise at the rim. I do think Quinerly will be much better next season.

What say you?

I think this is a good analysis...

this year Bama collectively was good enough to make it to the final four...

After watching UCLA and Gonzaga Bama has no Jazang or Timme or Suggs... or an inside guy to handle UCLA’s big yet..

I think Herb Jones is an offensive skill set away from being that guy ( that’s a lot )...

who will emerge as the scorer in crunch time? — Keon Ellis or Primo or Q has that potential .. or all three next year and we are back in the sweet sixteen

 

[cola68]

I think the only thing we lack is "consistency of play and effort" from those players that can make a difference. JQ picked up and went beyond in the second half of the year. Ellis and Gary really got started towards the end. We lacked consistency from Primo, Shack, Reese and Petty all season. Everyone knew it, and that's when Herb (because of leadership) tried to do too much and it started hurting us when he wasn't able to push himself beyond ability and he couldn't play within himself. It seemed at times that some were intentionally trying to tank. I think we would've been better off mentally if Petty would've been let go in December.

Shack disappeared in the UCLA game

 

[anon_z8qxv7qt5719f]

Shack disappeared in the UCLA game

He was inconsistent all year and slumped himself. He just shot enough every game to where his 30 - 40 percent gave him points.

 

[EugDan]

I know we often slam Bama players for missing at the rim... but I have seen an awful lot of missed shots around the rim during the tourney by other 'good' players/teams.

Gonzaga seems to be ahead in this area, even though Timme misses point blank on occasion.

Maybe it is because they [Zags] are not necessarily as athletically gifted, or they put extra emphasis on the rim exercises or they are taught to use the subtle head & shoulder fakes... and this may be where CNO's 1/2 second rule of decision making gets our players in too much of a hurry rather than being patient, especially around the rim.

 

[PlaidandParquet]

I know we often slam Bama players for missing at the rim... but I have seen an awful lot of missed shots around the rim during the tourney by other 'good' players/teams.

Gonzaga seems to be ahead in this area, even though Timme misses point blank on occasion.

Maybe it is because they [Zags] are not necessarily as athletically gifted, or they put extra emphasis on the rim exercises or they are taught to use the subtle head & shoulder fakes... and this may be where CNO's 1/2 second rule of decision making gets our players in too much of a hurry rather than being patient, especially around the rim.

Timme is playing a true post though, and working for position and points

Our guys are usually on straight rim runs

 

[tomg505]

He was inconsistent all year and slumped himself. He just shot enough every game to where his 30 - 40 percent gave him points.

While Shack did have his slump, he did save some games attacking the bucket. Petty and Herb had a shooting slump and had difficulty penetrating. Good thing all were busting it on defense! I think the experience of a very successful season and the disappointment at the end, plus watching UCLA take the zags to the end will allow Coach Oats to usher in a new mentality and some of the talent will begin to show more consistency offensively. They just didn't look confident. But it was better that what we have seen in the past. Your comment about Petty in December may be right. Others may have had a chance to step during our season. I had concern of the risk of continuing with a suspended senior who had been suspended as a junior. But I am very happy that Petty could turn it around. It wouldn't have looked good on his resume. I think we are all confident Nate will deal with this! Maybe he can visit with Saban about his lectures on finishing. But I am still sick that with the free throw line, 2 horrible calls by the refs, and Nate putting the game in Herbs hand, we gave away a golden opportunity to have these new guys get the Final Four experience.

 

[anon_z8qxv7qt5719f]

I know we often slam Bama players for missing at the rim... but I have seen an awful lot of missed shots around the rim during the tourney by other 'good' players/teams.

Gonzaga seems to be ahead in this area, even though Timme misses point blank on occasion.

Maybe it is because they [Zags] are not necessarily as athletically gifted, or they put extra emphasis on the rim exercises or they are taught to use the subtle head & shoulder fakes... and this may be where CNO's 1/2 second rule of decision making gets our players in too much of a hurry rather than being patient, especially around the rim.

Maybe we need to get quicker thinking players. If you know that when you drive it's either going to be 1 on 1 or you are going to draw the defense it should be an automatic when you take those first few dribbles to basket. I think some are going to the hoop no matter if 1 on 1 or 1 on 3 and it's usually out of control.

 

[anon_z8qxv7qt5719f]

While Shack did have his slump, he did save some games attacking the bucket. Petty and Herb had a shooting slump and had difficulty penetrating. Good thing all were busting it on defense! I think the experience of a very successful season and the disappointment at the end, plus watching UCLA take the zags to the end will allow Coach Oats to usher in a new mentality and some of the talent will begin to show more consistency offensively. They just didn't look confident. But it was better that what we have seen in the past. Your comment about Petty in December may be right. Others may have had a chance to step during our season. I had concern of the risk of continuing with a suspended senior who had been suspended as a junior. But I am very happy that Petty could turn it around. It wouldn't have looked good on his resume. I think we are all confident Nate will deal with this! Maybe he can visit with Saban about his lectures on finishing. But I am still sick that with the free throw line, 2 horrible calls by the refs, and Nate putting the game in Herbs hand, we gave away a golden opportunity to have these new guys get the Final Four experience.

I wish we stop saying "visit Saban"! When you are a coach and you let another coach come in and do your job, then that person becomes the coach and your clout is zero.

 

[anon_z8qxv7qt5719f]

We don't know that "Nate put the game in Herb's hands". There are no designated shooters on the team in his system. It's not CAG where you had to ask permission to shoot the ball. He allows a lot of freedom.

 

[tomg505]

We don't know that "Nate put the game in Herb's hands". There are no designated shooters on the team in his system. It's not CAG where you had to ask permission to shoot the ball. he allows a lot of freedom.

Will have to look again. But if I remember correctly, we came out of a time out and it appeared to be a call.

 

[PlaidandParquet]

Maybe we need to get quicker thinking players. If you know that when you drive it's either going to be 1 on 1 or you are going to draw the defense it should be an automatic when you take those first few dribbles to basket. I think some are going to the hoop no matter if 1 on 1 or 1 on 3 and it's usually out of control.

Decision making on drives needs to be pretty much instinctive

Like Indiana Jones said, too many of our drives had an "I'll think of something" aspect to them

 

[anon_z8qxv7qt5719f]

Will have to look again. But if I remember correctly, we came out of a time out and it appeared to be a call.

Just because we come out of a timeout doesn't mean it was meant for Herb. He could've been the one that just decided to take shot.

 

[anon_z8qxv7qt5719f]

Decision making on drives needs to be pretty much instinctive

Like Indiana Jones said, too many of our drives had an "I'll think of something" aspect to them

We leave a lot of "shooters" wide open on drives.

 

[tomg505]

I wish we stop saying "visit Saban"! When you are a coach and you let another coach come in and do your job, then that person becomes the coach and your clout is zero.

I haven't seen a lot of people saying Nate needing Nick "come in and do your job". It appears that we all are confident in his ability. My comment of saban and finish, was to point out that sometimes teams don't finish well at the end and Saban is damn good at taking advantage of that in the off season. Nate will call the shots. But he himself said he wanted to learn about how the Saban built the championship juggernaut when he arrived.

 

[anon_z8qxv7qt5719f]

I haven't seen a lot of people saying Nate needing Nick "come in and do your job". It appears that we all are confident in his ability. My comment of saban and finish, was to point out that sometimes teams don't finish well at the end and Saban is damn good at taking advantage of that in the off season. Nate will call the shots. But he himself said he wanted to learn about how the Saban built the championship juggernaut when he arrived.

What I'm saying is that sometimes there are too many "Coaches" and there is only one coach and he needs to talk about finishing. From experience when you let another coach intervene into operations, then that players start looking to that other person for inspiration and you become someone that is an after thought on the sideline. Yes, there have been many "What would Saban do" moments on the basketball board.

 

[PlaidandParquet]

BOGS everywhere approve of this message

 

[50 Pesos]

I’ll take this season over the previous 15 for sure, but there is a lot of room for improvement. What we saw last night is a different level than Bama. I believe in analytics (what took the coaches so long to get on board) but an open shot from ten feet is still a good shot and we saw a lot of that with Gonzaga/UCLA. My understanding is Bama doesn’t practice much other than layups and 3’s. Maybe that’s the problem with free throws.
Another thing I notice with Bama is a ton of dribbling and one on one play. That’s not how the most successful teams play. Gonzaga tends to pass more than dribble and that often produces the shot at the rim or a wide open outside shot.
Possibly CNO is doing the best he can with what he has and we will see some evolution. So I’m impressed with where we are in year 2. But we all know we have a ways to go to be a perennial contender. And there’s no excuse for shooting less than 70% from the line. With enough practice you can make 50% while sitting on the floor.
To be completely fair I thought CNO worked miracles with what he had (while keeping in mind the conference was down. OOC record really tells it all).

 

[michael1965]

Free throw % for the season was acceptable. However there were games when it was horrendous. Against Maryland they went 10 for ten so it's there. Just need consistency. CNOs system got us to the Sweet 16, not bad for 2nd season. I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel, just get some replacement spokes.

 

[EugDan]

Timme is playing a true post though, and working for position and points

Our guys are usually on straight rim runs

I agree. But Timme also set screens and rolled to the basket just as Bama guys do...

doesn't matter if they are full-throttle, straight line drives to the basket.... all players can add a little finesse to their game - it's not always about brute force, quickness or leaping ability - it's capitalizing on your opponent's mistake of being over zealous to stop you

 

[cola68]

Timme is playing a true post though, and working for position and points

Our guys are usually on straight rim runs

Timme is textbook on low post moves.
I love this guy except for the kiss he blows after the made shot..

He reminds me of the Celtic Kevin Mchale ( more athletic) .. Kevin was one of the best at showing the ball in a shot fake, getting the defender off their feet and finishing with an easy bank shot

 

[cola68]

I’ll take this season over the previous 15 for sure, but there is a lot of room for improvement. What we saw last night is a different level than Bama. I believe in analytics (what took the coaches so long to get on board) but an open shot from ten feet is still a good shot and we saw a lot of that with Gonzaga/UCLA. My understanding is Bama doesn’t practice much other than layups and 3’s. Maybe that’s the problem with free throws.
Another thing I notice with Bama is a ton of dribbling and one on one play. That’s not how the most successful teams play. Gonzaga tends to pass more than dribble and that often produces the shot at the rim or a wide open outside shot.
Possibly CNO is doing the best he can with what he has and we will see some evolution. So I’m impressed with where we are in year 2. But we all know we have a ways to go to be a perennial contender. And there’s no excuse for shooting less than 70% from the line. With enough practice you can make 50% while sitting on the floor.
To be completely fair I thought CNO worked miracles with what he had (while keeping in mind the conference was down. OOC record really tells it all).

Half court offense can improve but Oats spreads the floor so dribble drives can occur that suck the help defense in and then pass out to the three point line for an uncontested three ...

Free throws did improve this year ... just I think the bright lights at the sweet 16 shone too bright

 

[Sweetlou10]

Timme is textbook on low post moves.
I love this guy except for the kiss he blows after the made shift
He reminds me of the Celtic Kevin Mchale ( more athletic) .. Kevin was one of the best at showing the ball in a shot fake, getting the defender off their feet and finishing with an easy bank shot

Yeah that little blowing the kiss thing is pretty lame. I actually hope Baylor beats the brakes off of them

 

[RollTide15]

Consistency was lacking big time. We could not be counted on to come out of the gate playing hard. We had a tendency to fall behind. Shack was up and down. Ditto Petty. Ditto Herb. Ditto Primo. That's 4 starters that you didn't really know what to expect from game to game. And Reese to some extent. Ditto free throw shooting - what's with that? With great teams, you know what you are going to get every game.