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What to do with Herb Jones???

frazor

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Aug 20, 2002
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Not that I am not excited about what this team has accomplished but we can't just ignore Herb's disappearing act over the past month. Not counting the UGA game, in which offensive records were set, Herb is only avg 5 points a game in the seven games going back to OU. To make it worse he has only attempted 8 free throws over those 7 games making only 3. While I know fouls have played a major role in his performance it is hard to find anything that he brings to the table in the half court offense. Am I crazy or does Reese, Jones, Bruner, and Rojas all need to just set high screens and hope for a wide open three?
 
Get him away from the ball. He offensive rebounds and puts back, shoots wide open 3’s and defends/rebounds. He had to run the point for awhile and he didn’t kill us. But obviously opposing teams have figured that out. JQ is settling back in and he’s probably our best offensive player right now. So let Herb go back to being Herb.
 
He’s still hurt... you’ll see him likely rest some the final two games. You can tell he doesn’t have as much lift going up for contested layups. Dude did grab 14 rebounds tonight so I wouldn’t complain too much
It’s complicated bc he obviously does a ton for us like he always has. Just seems like we insist on him being the focal point on offense at times and he isn’t cut out for that role imo. He looked improved in every area offensively for awhile but the last month has been a tough watch.
 
It’s complicated bc he obviously does a ton for us like he always has. Just seems like we insist on him being the focal point on offense at times and he isn’t cut out for that role imo. He looked improved in every area offensively for awhile but the last month has been a tough watch.
He’s been hurt the past month....
 
He’s still hurt... you’ll see him likely rest some the final two games. You can tell he doesn’t have as much lift going up for contested layups. Dude did grab 14 rebounds tonight so I wouldn’t complain too much
Not complaining about his all around game because I agree he has to be out there.
 
He’s still hurt... you’ll see him likely rest some the final two games. You can tell he doesn’t have as much lift going up for contested layups. Dude did grab 14 rebounds tonight so I wouldn’t complain too much
I know he is still hurt but then sit him down for a couple of games. I know he brings leadership and hustle to the team, but get the ball out of his hands. JQ has to be on the floor as much as possible to
handle the ball. As much as I admire Herb, he cannot even make a layup half the time these days.
He has to play better in the upcoming tournaments if we have any chance.
 
I know he is still hurt but then sit him down for a couple of games. I know he brings leadership and hustle to the team, but get the ball out of his hands. JQ has to be on the floor as much as possible to
handle the ball. As much as I admire Herb, he cannot even make a layup half the time these days.
He has to play better in the upcoming tournaments if we have any chance.
I think he will start to rest more the final 2 games since the SEC title isn’t on the line now.
 
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Not sure why but Herb has always been the first one people point out .... when he struggles .. I chose to look at the last 4 games for Jones and Petty ......

Petty...
In the last 4 games Petty is averaging 10 a game less than 40% shooting 11 for 28 ...in the last 4 games 14 rebounds, 11 turnovers, 6 assist and 4 steals.

Jones
In the last 4 games Jones is averaging 9 points a game on 47% shooting 13 for 28 .....in the last 4 games 26 rebounds, 6 turnovers, 14 assist and 6 steals.

Petty is scoring a point more a game but 12 LESS rebounds EIGHT more turnovers 8 FEWER assist and 2 less steals.

jmo but Petty is struggling more than Jones .... we need both to get back on track if we are going to make a run ....again jmo.


What to do with Jones? Start him and explain how important it is to be aggressive but we can't afford to have you get silly fouls .... which takes u out of the game.
 
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Not sure why but Herb has always been the first one people point out .... when he struggles .. I chose to look at the last 4 games for Jones and Petty ......

Petty...
In the last 4 games Petty is averaging 10 a game less than 40% shooting 11 for 28 ...in the last 4 games 14 rebounds, 11 turnovers, 6 assist and 4 steals.

Jones
In the last 4 games Jones is averaging 9 points a game on 47% shooting 13 for 28 .....in the last 4 games 26 rebounds, 6 turnovers, 14 assist and 6 steals.

Petty is scoring a point more a game but 12 LESS rebounds EIGHT more turnovers 8 FEWER assist and 2 less steals.

jmo but Petty is struggling more than Jones .... we need both to get back on track if we are going to make a run ....again jmo.


What to do with Jones? Start him and explain how important it is to be aggressive but we can't afford to have you get silly fouls .... which takes u out of the game.
That has been Petty’s entire career. I think we’re all just numb to it. Petty is a guy that can catch absolute fire from 3 and help you blow a team out every now and then. The one difference now compared to early in his career is effort on defense and rebounding. If he didn’t do those things I think Oats would have processed him. His offensive deficiencies have been the same since day 1.

The same things can be said of Herb except we all love Herb and want him to be the player we saw early in sec play. Like you said the fact of the matter is we need both of them to get rolling again for us to make a deep tournament run.
 
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Herb does so many things besides scoring and to many fans it is only about how many you score.

I think NO has shown you how much value who puts on Herb ... he was telling us Herb was not close to 100% but he kept him in the lineup ... tells me all I need to know about Herb. I said last year or the year before he will be an NBA player not a star but he will help an NBA team. GREAT teammate just tell him what u need him to do ...
 
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Herb does so many things besides scoring and to many fans it is only about how many you score.

I think NO has shown you how much value who puts on Herb ... he was telling us Herb was not close to 100% but he kept him in the lineup ... tells me all I need to know about Herb. I said last year or the year before he will be an NBA player not a star but he will help an NBA team. GREAT teammate just tell him what u need him to do ...
This is true about Herb. We are better with him in the game even when he’s off on offense. The problem is when we want him to be the one out offense goes through and he can’t put the ball on the floor without a turnover or driving and getting stuff by the rim repeatedly. To me, especially while he’s hurting, he needs to be a guy who has scoring opportunities fall in his lap, not a guy who we rely on as a focal point of our offense.
 
Herb needs to cut the unnecessary and obvious fouls out so he's got more room to help us with his defense when it matters. Also should reconsider his takes to the bucket. His game as an initiator is overrated and most often hurts us. He just doesn't bring much to the table when he's guarded well and as mentioned does better as a cleanup guy. Overall this team just needs much better play from our 3 and 4. It's been bad lately.
 
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Reading this board I would think Herb is a turnover machine ... yet when I look at the last 4 games he had 6 turnovers 6 STEALS and 14 assist. Petty had more turnovers and does not handle the ball as much.
 
Herb needs to cut the unnecessary and obvious fouls out so he's got more room to help us with his defense when it matters. Also should reconsider his takes to the bucket. His game as an initiator is overrated and most often hurts us. He just doesn't bring much to the table when he's guarded well and as mentioned does better as a cleanup guy. Overall this team just needs much better play from our 3 and 4. It's been bad lately.
Herb doesn’t turn it over much. JQ is the one with the turnover problem. Hopefully JQ has figured that out, but Herb is and will be fine.
 
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He’s been hurt the past month....
I’ll preface this by saying I love Herb and he does a ton for our team. But, 90% of his career it’s been brutal to watch offensively. Basically he had a 6-7 game stretch this year where he finished through contact and did a lot of things well on that end. The past month with the exception of the Georgia game it’s been back to normal.
 
I’ll preface this by saying I love Herb and he does a ton for our team. But, 90% of his career it’s been brutal to watch offensively. Basically he had a 6-7 game stretch this year where he finished through contact and did a lot of things well on that end. The past month with the exception of the Georgia game it’s been back to normal.
He was also very healthy during that time. It stinks that 90% of his career he has been hampered with injuries. He plays through them though.
 
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He was also very healthy during that time. It stinks that 90% of his career he has been hampered with injuries. He plays through them though.
Tough as nails and helps us in so many ways, but his inability to finish does not fall solely on injuries. Just a weakness in his game. Which we can live with if we stop trying to run the offense through him. His missed layups at the rim are essentially turnovers that don’t go in the books that way, and they often lead to run outs for the opposition.
 
Tough as nails and helps us in so many ways, but his inability to finish does not fall solely on injuries. Just a weakness in his game. Which we can live with if we stop trying to run the offense through him. His missed layups at the rim are essentially turnovers that don’t go in the books that way, and they often lead to run outs for the opposition.
Not necessarily. Even misses at the rim are offensive rebound opportunities. Turnovers are considered as such for a reason.
 
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Herb doesn’t turn it over much. JQ is the one with the turnover problem. Hopefully JQ has figured that out, but Herb is and will be fine.

Some of his drives to the basket are turnovers while he is hurt b/c there is little chance he finishes. He’s just not money like he was earlier in the year. He does so many more things though that you just don’t have him force things on the offensive end until he is healthy unless we are in a game where there is a quick whistle in Bama’s favor
 
I can't believe this thread. Herb Jones is likely to be the MVP of the SEC this year, a Naismith Defensive Award Finalist, and an All American, in spite of his lack of scoring, and some people wonder why he is in the game? We are definitely a better team with Herb Jones in the lineup than with Herb Jones on the bench, which is the reason he should not be playing point. Defensively we cannot afford herb to pick up charging fouls driving to the basket.

Now the problem against Miss State should have been anticipated. Alabama is basically running a four guard offensive, with either Reese, Rojas or Bruner playing the big man, in an attempt to draw the other teams big from under the basket. Miss State has two decent bigs and any team with a good big is going to give Bama fits, just as Alabama is going to give any team with a traditional defense is going to have problems matching up with Alabama's four guard offense.

In December, I said that Alabama needed to have someone teach Alabama how to take the ball to the rim and teach them how to shoot a layup. The hard fact is that if you cannot hit 60% of your chip shots at the rim, you have a problem and I think we are below 50% of the year. We have overcome this problem by having a team that offensive rebounds and hits over 35% from three point range most of the year. Saturday and at Arkansas we out rebounded teams we should not be out rebounding. With Herb Jones in the game, Alabama is a ferocious rebounding team.

If we hit shots at the rim and shoot 40% from 3 territory we will beat any team we play. If the opposing team has a great big man and a strong power forward, we are going to have a problem. Miss State finally learned the secret of beating Alabama in the second half Saturday. We cannot go 2-14 in the second half from 3 and win many games. The secret to winning last Saturday was that Herbert Jones did not pick up any cheap fouls in the first half and managed to stay in the game. We can win even if Herb Jones does not score, because of the havoc that Herbert Jones creates defensively.

When Herbert Jones needs a breather, we have his clone, #14, to come in and give him a breather. The problem with the team the last three weeks has been that we are not getting our normal production from Primo and Petty to go with Jones. We also cannot win a game that Shakelford does not get 15 points or more.

All that being said, our best chance going forward is to lose early in the SEC tournament and get the needed rest before a Thursday of Friday NCAA game. That being said would I love to win the tournament? Yes, but we have nothing to prove that rest would not cure.
 
I can't believe this thread. Herb Jones is likely to be the MVP of the SEC this year, a Naismith Defensive Award Finalist, and an All American, in spite of his lack of scoring, and some people wonder why he is in the game? We are definitely a better team with Herb Jones in the lineup than with Herb Jones on the bench, which is the reason he should not be playing point. Defensively we cannot afford herb to pick up charging fouls driving to the basket.

Now the problem against Miss State should have been anticipated. Alabama is basically running a four guard offensive, with either Reese, Rojas or Bruner playing the big man, in an attempt to draw the other teams big from under the basket. Miss State has two decent bigs and any team with a good big is going to give Bama fits, just as Alabama is going to give any team with a traditional defense is going to have problems matching up with Alabama's four guard offense.

In December, I said that Alabama needed to have someone teach Alabama how to take the ball to the rim and teach them how to shoot a layup. The hard fact is that if you cannot hit 60% of your chip shots at the rim, you have a problem and I think we are below 50% of the year. We have overcome this problem by having a team that offensive rebounds and hits over 35% from three point range most of the year. Saturday and at Arkansas we out rebounded teams we should not be out rebounding. With Herb Jones in the game, Alabama is a ferocious rebounding team.

If we hit shots at the rim and shoot 40% from 3 territory we will beat any team we play. If the opposing team has a great big man and a strong power forward, we are going to have a problem. Miss State finally learned the secret of beating Alabama in the second half Saturday. We cannot go 2-14 in the second half from 3 and win many games. The secret to winning last Saturday was that Herbert Jones did not pick up any cheap fouls in the first half and managed to stay in the game. We can win even if Herb Jones does not score, because of the havoc that Herbert Jones creates defensively.

When Herbert Jones needs a breather, we have his clone, #14, to come in and give him a breather. The problem with the team the last three weeks has been that we are not getting our normal production from Primo and Petty to go with Jones. We also cannot win a game that Shakelford does not get 15 points or more.

All that being said, our best chance going forward is to lose early in the SEC tournament and get the needed rest before a Thursday of Friday NCAA game. That being said would I love to win the tournament? Yes, but we have nothing to prove that rest would not cure.
Really don’t disagree with this and I absolutely love Herb. He’s a beast and without his 14 boards on Saturday we likely lose. Having said that, I think it’s okay at this point to say most of the time he’s a nightmare offensively. Now, like you said, that can be mitigated if he’s not forced to run point/forward. Unfortunately, both college coaches he’s played for have played him that way. Oats has even run the offense through him in clutch situations several times this year in hopes that he would win the game with a big bucket. He’s awesome in so many ways, but to state it bluntly: he ain’t that dude. He’s just not. Let him play away from the ball, slash to the basket, get put back dunks, shoot open threes and rebound and play defense. I also think you’re overstating him a bit because as it stands he’s not in the top 3 sec MVP finalists. He was for a stretch, but that’s gone way out the window
 
Reading this board I would think Herb is a turnover machine ... yet when I look at the last 4 games he had 6 turnovers 6 STEALS and 14 assist. Petty had more turnovers and does not handle the ball as much.
Statistically, I agree with you. I think the perception comes from missed layups and botched slam dunks that many of us label as turnovers. he , someway, has created automatic cringes from many observers when he puts the ball on the floor near the basket.
 
When u r wrist and finger are hurt I can, only, imagine it makes it tougher to close out at the rim ,,,, only imagine because it has been a LONG time since I could get to the rim.

I damn sure wish we could find 9 more who are as tough and play as hard as Herb.
 
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When u r wrist and finger are hurt I can, only, imagine it makes it tougher to close out at the rim ,,,, only imagine because it has been a LONG time since I could get to the rim.

I damn sure wish we could find 9 more who are as tough and play as hard as Herb.

I know exactly what you mean. At my age it is tough to get it to any rim.
 
Really don’t disagree with this and I absolutely love Herb. He’s a beast and without his 14 boards on Saturday we likely lose. Having said that, I think it’s okay at this point to say most of the time he’s a nightmare offensively. Now, like you said, that can be mitigated if he’s not forced to run point/forward. Unfortunately, both college coaches he’s played for have played him that way. Oats has even run the offense through him in clutch situations several times this year in hopes that he would win the game with a big bucket. He’s awesome in so many ways, but to state it bluntly: he ain’t that dude. He’s just not. Let him play away from the ball, slash to the basket, get put back dunks, shoot open threes and rebound and play defense. I also think you’re overstating him a bit because as it stands he’s not in the top 3 sec MVP finalists. He was for a stretch, but that’s gone way out the window
I agree. We all agree Herb needs to always be in the game. But he doesnt need to be driving the ball, one on one or taking threes in a critical situation. He needs to play the role that best fits him!
 
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I can't believe this thread. Herb Jones is likely to be the MVP of the SEC this year, a Naismith Defensive Award Finalist, and an All American, in spite of his lack of scoring, and some people wonder why he is in the game? We are definitely a better team with Herb Jones in the lineup than with Herb Jones on the bench, which is the reason he should not be playing point. Defensively we cannot afford herb to pick up charging fouls driving to the basket.

Now the problem against Miss State should have been anticipated. Alabama is basically running a four guard offensive, with either Reese, Rojas or Bruner playing the big man, in an attempt to draw the other teams big from under the basket. Miss State has two decent bigs and any team with a good big is going to give Bama fits, just as Alabama is going to give any team with a traditional defense is going to have problems matching up with Alabama's four guard offense.

In December, I said that Alabama needed to have someone teach Alabama how to take the ball to the rim and teach them how to shoot a layup. The hard fact is that if you cannot hit 60% of your chip shots at the rim, you have a problem and I think we are below 50% of the year. We have overcome this problem by having a team that offensive rebounds and hits over 35% from three point range most of the year. Saturday and at Arkansas we out rebounded teams we should not be out rebounding. With Herb Jones in the game, Alabama is a ferocious rebounding team.

If we hit shots at the rim and shoot 40% from 3 territory we will beat any team we play. If the opposing team has a great big man and a strong power forward, we are going to have a problem. Miss State finally learned the secret of beating Alabama in the second half Saturday. We cannot go 2-14 in the second half from 3 and win many games. The secret to winning last Saturday was that Herbert Jones did not pick up any cheap fouls in the first half and managed to stay in the game. We can win even if Herb Jones does not score, because of the havoc that Herbert Jones creates defensively.

When Herbert Jones needs a breather, we have his clone, #14, to come in and give him a breather. The problem with the team the last three weeks has been that we are not getting our normal production from Primo and Petty to go with Jones. We also cannot win a game that Shakelford does not get 15 points or more.

All that being said, our best chance going forward is to lose early in the SEC tournament and get the needed rest before a Thursday of Friday NCAA game. That being said would I love to win the tournament? Yes, but we have nothing to prove that rest would not cure.
Agree with most all said, but tournament seeding will not be completed until after SEC tourney. Westill
 
I agree. We all agree Herb needs to always be in the game. But he doesnt need to be driving the ball, one on one or taking threes in a critical situation. He needs to play the role that best fits him!

I’m ok with him shooting 3s. Until he is healthy he needs to hold back on the aggressiveness going towards the basket and attempting a layup in a set offense. That’s not a winning formula right now.
 
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....... He’s awesome in so many ways, but to state it bluntly: he ain’t that dude. He’s just not. Let him play away from the ball, slash to the basket, get put back dunks, shoot open threes and rebound and play defense. I also think you’re overstating him a bit because as it stands he’s not in the top 3 sec MVP finalists. He was for a stretch, but that’s gone way out the window

Herbert Jones, SEC Player of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, First team All-SEC. What do you do with the Most valuable Player in the SEC? Easy answer, you play him as much as you can.
 
Herbert Jones, SEC Player of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, First team All-SEC. What do you do with the Most valuable Player in the SEC? Easy answer, you play him as much as you can.
I was wrong about the Sec POY. I hope you know I completely agree that he should play as much as possible! He does so many things. My ONLY point above was that he’s not a go to scorer. Along with that point, he’s now the lowest ppg winner of this award.
 
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