I’ve been saying it for 4 years with a lot of clap-back from posters here.

[G.O.A.T-23]

But put the freaking mid-range shot to your offense. I don’t understand the analytics geeks who want to talk about tenths of percentages as to why you don’t shoot that shot. Had Nat Oats just coached basketball and not the analytics, Alabama might be winning a championship this season.

You’re not abandoning your system, you’re adding to it and making them harder to guard. Just think of a team coming in that has to guard you on all three levels on the floor.
The analytics told Oats it was smart to foul down by 2 with 47 seconds remaining. Fück the analytics and just coach basketball.

 

[BamaNavyCPO]

It's a monumental mistakes to believe in a system with such gusto that you fail to embrace change. Change is inherent. Other coaches are smart too, and given enough time, they will figure out how to counter your system. Instituting a little change (i.e. mid-range shot) would keep the opponent off balance and guessing. More importantly, regardless as to where the shot is taken, 3 pointer/mid-range/layup, you have to make the shot!

P.s.: And for goodness sake, STOP taking those TOs home with you!

 

[frazor]

But all the freaking mid-range shot to your offense. I don’t understand the analytics geeks who want to talk about tenths of percentages as to why you don’t shoot that shot. Had Nat Oats just coached basketball and not the analytics, Alabama might be winning a championship this season.

You’re not abandoning your system, you’re adding to it and making them harder to guard. Just think of a team coming in that has to guard you on all three levels on the floor.
The analytics told Oats it was smart to foul down by 2 with 47 seconds remaining. Fück the analytics and just coach basketball.

Obviously his system works but it is quiet stupid as a coach to not always be looking for ways to evolve. He definately has a ways to go. My concern would be that an incorporation of midrange is going to reduce opponents fouls and thus free throw attempts. However, having ballhandlers that know a wide open 13 footer is better than getting blocked seems pretty important too. The game is always changing. We'll see.

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

It's a monumental mistakes to believe in a system with such gusto that you fail to embrace change. Change is inherent. Other coaches are smart too, and given enough time, they will figure out how to counter your system. Instituting a little change (i.e. mid-range shot) would keep the opponent off balance and guessing. More importantly, regardless as to where the shot is taken, 3 pointer/mid-range/layup, you have to make the shot!

P.s.: And for goodness sake, STOP taking those TOs home with you!

Yeah, don’t know how I forgot about the TOs. SDSU used one to stop Bama’s momentum but Oats just held on to his while they went on a 12-0 run.

I hope he looks in the mirror and ask himself what he could have done differently to get Bama to the Final Four. And it’s not all on him, one of those assistants has to be able o recognize that they are giving us the mid-range, so instead of going in there and getting the shot blocked for the 20th time, pull up.

 

[BamaNavyCPO]

Yeah, don’t know how I forgot about the TOs. SDSU used one to stop Bama’s momentum but Oats just held on to his while they went on a 12-0 run.

I hope he looks in the mirror and ask himself what he could have done differently to get Bama to the Final Four. And it’s not all on him, one of those assistants has to be able o recognize that they are giving us the mid-range, so instead of going in there and getting the shot blocked for the 20th time, pull up.

AMEN!

 

[StablerCountry]

But all the freaking mid-range shot to your offense. I don’t understand the analytics geeks who want to talk about tenths of percentages as to why you don’t shoot that shot. Had Nat Oats just coached basketball and not the analytics, Alabama might be winning a championship this season.

You’re not abandoning your system, you’re adding to it and making them harder to guard. Just think of a team coming in that has to guard you on all three levels on the floor.
The analytics told Oats it was smart to foul down by 2 with 47 seconds remaining. Fück the analytics and just coach basketball.

No way should they have fouled down by two with 47 seconds. That was the call that put the nail in the coffin. Play defense. SDS was only shooting about 36% I believe.

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

No way should they have fouled down by two with 47 seconds. That was the call that put the nail in the coffin. Play defense. SDS was only shooting about 36% I believe.

Exactly, and playing good defense is the one thing you have been able to count on in the vast majority of your games including that one.

 

[TideFever]

Oats has stated a few times he doesn't tell his kids to not take open midrange shots. What he harps on, and maybe too much, is making sure if you take a long shot that it's for 3 and not a foot inside the arc. Plus it sounds like they really wear out the "Houston spots" in drilling the point home of make sure its a three if its a longer shot.

I think some of the midrange thing gets overblown because he does want 3s and layups but the players get caught up in forcing a drive to the rim if the 3 point shot isn't there. JQ, Sears, and Miller all hit some mid range shots this season.

The time outs thing is just weird to me. It really speaks to his entire in game style to let players play. Be it to play their way out of something or into something. If you could bank up timeouts to use in future games he could call one a dozen times a game for the next five years and still have some to use. There was no reason to end the game against SDSU with any time outs. At most maybe one remaining just in case we have an in bounds brain cramp in a last shot situation.

 

[OatsMeal]

Are you saying the same thing about UConn right now, or nah?

 

[cola68]

Yeah, don’t know how I forgot about the TOs. SDSU used one to stop Bama’s momentum but Oats just held on to his while they went on a 12-0 run.

I hope he looks in the mirror and ask himself what he could have done differently to get Bama to the Final Four. And it’s not all on him, one of those assistants has to be able o recognize that they are giving us the mid-range, so instead of going in there and getting the shot blocked for the 20th time, pull up.

I’ll shout this from the mountaintops: the offense should and will evolve: the uncontested floater from just below the foul line is a high percentage shot

Secondly, the days between the second round and the sweet sixteen allows coaching staffs to show their coaching acumen.

All the teams are talented who make the sweet sixteen so sometimes it comes down to in game adjustments and coaching in the preparation up to the game.

As a side note : as I was watching the sdsu/ bama game I kept wondering how a zone defense would have done against a poor shooting Aztec team

 

[aggietider]

I’ll shout this from the mountaintops: the offense should and will evolve: the uncontested floater from just below the foul line is a high percentage shot

Secondly, the days between the second round and the sweet sixteen allows coaching staffs to show their coaching acumen.

All the teams are talented who make the sweet sixteen so sometimes it comes down to in game adjustments and coaching in the preparation up to the game.

As a side note : as I was watching the sdsu/ bama game I kept wondering how a zone defense would have done against a poor shooting Aztec team

What makes you so sure the offense will evolve? It hasn’t changed yet and I don’t see Oats changing in that regard.
And as tough a time as we had rebounding, a zone can make rebounding that much more difficult. And they didn’t shoot it so bad against us did they?

 

[aggietider]

A free throw is one of the three staples of the Bama offense if it’s worth 1 point. But if you get an open free throw that’s worth 2 points, you can’t shoot it. I’d like to see those analytics. My mom has been a high school math teacher my entire life, so I know a little in terms of numbers. And if I can shoot an open shoot from the same place and one is worth 1 point and one is worth 2, I’ll take my chances with the one worth 2.

 

[rsaxoniii]

Oats has stated a few times he doesn't tell his kids to not take open midrange shots. What he harps on, and maybe too much, is making sure if you take a long shot that it's for 3 and not a foot inside the arc. Plus it sounds like they really wear out the "Houston spots" in drilling the point home of make sure its a three if its a longer shot.

I think some of the midrange thing gets overblown because he does want 3s and layups but the players get caught up in forcing a drive to the rim if the 3 point shot isn't there. JQ, Sears, and Miller all hit some mid range shots this season.

The time outs thing is just weird to me. It really speaks to his entire in game style to let players play. Be it to play their way out of something or into something. If you could bank up timeouts to use in future games he could call one a dozen times a game for the next five years and still have some to use. There was no reason to end the game against SDSU with any time outs. At most maybe one remaining just in case we have an in bounds brain cramp in a last shot situation.

This is the way I think as well. I hate 15-19 foot shots but it's very important to make 8-12 footers with some floaters.

I bet if someone studied analytics of an all around team it will tell you exactly what Oats philosophy is but Oats might be missing out on the fact that if you shoot all 3s and hard fought drives to the rim that the analytics get blown up because you lose quality of shot which lowers the shooting % of the 3s and layups...

You must have balance. Balance creates greatness that very few teams and players ever have.
Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls are the best because example of this.

 

[cola68]

What makes you so sure the offense will evolve? It hasn’t changed yet and I don’t see Oats changing in that regard.
And as tough a time as we had rebounding, a zone can make rebounding that much more difficult. And they didn’t shoot it so bad against us did they?

I understand a zone’s weakness.

Bama was a very good rebounding team this year

Bama out rebounded San Diego state …

The Aztecs got some timely offensive rebounds against a good man to man defense so even that defense isn’t fool proof

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

Oats has stated a few times he doesn't tell his kids to not take open midrange shots. What he harps on, and maybe too much, is making sure if you take a long shot that it's for 3 and not a foot inside the arc. Plus it sounds like they really wear out the "Houston spots" in drilling the point home of make sure its a three if its a longer shot.

I think some of the midrange thing gets overblown because he does want 3s and layups but the players get caught up in forcing a drive to the rim if the 3 point shot isn't there. JQ, Sears, and Miller all hit some mid range shots this season.

The time outs thing is just weird to me. It really speaks to his entire in game style to let players play. Be it to play their way out of something or into something. If you could bank up timeouts to use in future games he could call one a dozen times a game for the next five years and still have some to use. There was no reason to end the game against SDSU with any time outs. At most maybe one remaining just in case we have an in bounds brain cramp in a last shot situation.

He doesn’t tell them not to take the mid-range shot but he has made it very clear that they do not focus on that shot. They don’t take it in practice so they are rarely going to take it in games. And he’s definitely not pulling them aside and saying “hey, that mid-range shot is there, they are giving it to you so take it”. Instead he watched as we kept driving it into a waiting defense that sent the shot away. I would argue that mid-range shot is JQ’s best shot.

 

[jtr4dad]

He doesn’t tell them not to take the mid-range shot but he has made it very clear that they do not focus on that shot. They don’t take it in practice so they are rarely going to take it in games. And he’s definitely not pulling them aside and saying “hey, that mid-range shot is there, they are giving it to you so take it”. Instead he watched as we kept driving it into a waiting defense that sent the shot away. I would argue that mid-range shot is JQ’s best shot.

It was maddening watching the game last Friday. Oats wants rim shots and 3's. They were either swatting every rim shot back in our face or into the 3rd row of the stands, and we were 3/27 from 3. Did we try anything different? Of course not. The "analytics" said we were taking the correct shots. Basketball games aren't played on charts, graphs, or spreadsheets. Sometimes you just have to say the heck with analytics and adjust to what's happening in the moment. Oats refuses to do that. It is so dang frustrating at times.

 

[aggietider]

I understand a zone’s weakness.

Bama was a very good rebounding team this year

Bama out rebounded San Diego state …

The Aztecs got some timely offensive rebounds against a good man to man defense so even that defense isn’t fool proof

We gave up 17 offensive rebounds. That’s a lot.

 

[cola68]

We gave up 17 offensive rebounds. That’s a lot.

Truth… the now final 4 Aztec team gave up 22 off boards to bama. Head scratcher there.. I wouldn’t have believed that

 

[aggietider]

Truth… the now final 4 Aztec team gave up 22 off boards to bama. Head scratcher there.. I wouldn’t have believed that

When you miss 24 threes, you should get a decent number of offensive rebounds just from that.

 

[Vaughnbama]

If we had not had Coach Oats and his style of play, there are some players we would not have had, like Clowney,, Pringle, Bediako, Griffen and probably Sears. Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good.

Lets see, in the last three years we have been a two seed, eight seed and a one seed in the NCAA Tournament. I may be off base, but when has Alabama ever had that kind of three year run. If I had one thing to change about Coach Oats, I would look at his in state recruiting; however, with the Portal, I am not sure that you Recruit the Alabama Recruits a year after they leave Alabama.

 

[Slowpoke Catracho]

We lost because didn't execute. Pure and simple. Has nothing to do with "style of play".

 

[cola68]

If we had not had Coach Oats and his style of play, there are some players we would not have had, like Clowney,, Pringle, Bediako, Griffen and probably Sears. Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good.

Let’s see, in the last three years we have been a two seed, eight seed and a one seed in the NCAA Tournament. I may be off base, but when has Alabama ever had that kind of three year run. If I had one thing to change about Coach Oats, I would look at his in state recruiting; however, with the Portal, I am not sure that you Recruit the Alabama Recruits a year after they leave Alabama.

North Alabama puts out some good players … many haven’t chosen in state schools or maybe didn’t have any interest

 

[lainey2020]

Certainly had a bad game against SDSU
Not 100% sure the foul when 2 points behind was called from the bench
Won 31 games with this system
This system defintely helps recruit outstanding players
Hate it ended like it did, but looking forward to next year

 

[BamaNavyCPO]

We lost because didn't execute. Pure and simple. Has nothing to do with "style of play".

Respectully disagree. Isn't the "style of play" what they failed to execute? If not, then what is it "they failed to execute?"

 

[winin11]

You guys can argue CNO and how he coaches, but this team played like a bunch of drunken sailors at times, turning the ball over time and again on reckless ball handling and poor passing. They couldn't hit open shots and tried too many contested shots.
CNO isn't perfect, but he's the best coach we've had in ? damfino

 

[Slowpoke Catracho]

Respectully disagree. Isn't the "style of play" what they failed to execute? If not, then what is it "they failed to execute?"

Yes and no. You can run the offense, make wise decisions, hit your shots and win the game. Or you can do the opposite. Bottom line is that I'll take the Oats, the offense, winning 31 games, etc.... over the past 25 years off nothing coaches any day of the week.

 

[lainey2020]

Coach Oates has defintely done a hell of a job. Had a lot of great results with his style of play this year. l hate we fell short of our ultimate goal just like everybody else does. l would not recommend any wholesale changes, however.

 

[quickdraw22]

Yeah, don’t know how I forgot about the TOs. SDSU used one to stop Bama’s momentum but Oats just held on to his while they went on a 12-0 run.

I hope he looks in the mirror and ask himself what he could have done differently to get Bama to the Final Four. And it’s not all on him, one of those assistants has to be able o recognize that they are giving us the mid-range, so instead of going in there and getting the shot blocked for the 20th time, pull up.

Maybe you think we would be better off with Avery or Grant back fighting to just make the tournament

 

[TideFever]

I was asked by a barner this week if we're still happy with the Chip Kelly of basketball.

smh

In the moment I was caught between not being able to deny the comparison and making fun of their basketball before Pearl. So all I could pull together was at least he isn't the Gus of basketball and a Sling Blade imitation. ugh

I hope Oats figures out whatever "it" is that he's missing.

The Chip comparison fits to an extent. At least to this point. Winning lots of games using a crazy explosive offense and a unique system that most teams can't handle. But then when facing a well coached defensive team with tough physical players they tend to not have nearly as much offense. Not much left after the scheme is contained. Maybe the only difference is Chip's Duck teams rarely played even mediocre defense.

Oats new coaching hires need to be able to help him navigate maturing this system with some basketball basics.

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

Maybe you think we would be better off with Avery or Grant back fighting to just make the tournament

Or maybe, just maybe, I think we would be better off if the coach we had did a little soul searching and do a better job to get this program to the next level.

You would think that would be the logical conclusion from seeing my posts but I know not everyone thinks logically…

 

[quickdraw22]

I was asked by a barner this week if we're still happy with the Chip Kelly of basketball.

smh

In the moment I was caught between not being able to deny the comparison and making fun of their basketball before Pearl. So all I could pull together was at least he isn't the Gus of basketball and a Sling Blade imitation. ugh

I hope Oats figures out whatever "it" is that he's missing.

The Chip comparison fits to an extent. At least to this point. Winning lots of games using a crazy explosive offense and a unique system that most teams can't handle. But then when facing a well coached defensive team with tough physical players they tend to not have nearly as much offense. Not much left after the scheme is contained. Maybe the only difference is Chip's Duck teams rarely played even mediocre defense.

Oats new coaching hires need to be able to help him navigate maturing this system with some basketball basics.

Maybe you should have reminded him that Oats is waring Bruce Pearls ass out.He has won 4 out of the last six.

 

[TideFever]

Maybe you should have reminded him that Oats is waring Bruce Pearls ass out.He has won 4 out of the last six.

The come back on that for them would have been far too easy. I can hear that NE Bama drop out cackle of "well Pearls seen a final 4 a'least". Nevermind that they likely couldnt name a player on that team.

 

[quickdraw22]

The come back on that for them would have been far too easy. I can hear that NE Bama drop out cackle of "well Pearls seen a final 4 a'least". Nevermind that they likely couldnt name a player on that team.

Yea you’re probably right. You could remind them that Pearl hasn’t done much since Oats took over.

 

[BamaNavyCPO]

Maybe you think we would be better off with Avery or Grant back fighting to just make the tournament

Hobbs would be my choice. 👍
This thread is not about what's/who's behind us, it's about the pitfalls that ocurred in the "Sweet 16" in 2023. There's nothing wrong with discussing process improvement, especially where it's warranted. If the Bear and Saban can change/adapt their MOs, so can Oats.

 

[Slowpoke Catracho]

I just got through watching practice footage of his 5 on 5 series that he runs where you get points for rebounding, 3pt shots, mid-range twos, etc… Every winning team (playing to 8 pts.) had at least 3 mid-range twos (1pt) during the game. Never did I hear him yell stop shooting those shots to his players. I heard him yelling about staying down in stance, rebounding, defending, and touching the paint before the kick out. This notion that players are “forbidden” to pull up and hit the mid-range is a fantasy.

The thing is that we were missing wide open looks from 3 land in the offense. You got hit those shots. The offense is a "read and react" offense and once there is a read then the "plays" that come off of that read are set in motion.

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

I just got through watching practice footage of his 5 on 5 series that he runs where you get points for rebounding, 3pt shots, mid-range twos, etc… Every winning team (playing to 8 pts.) had at least 3 mid-range twos (1pt) during the game. Never did I hear him yell stop shooting those shots to his players. I heard him yelling about staying down in stance, rebounding, defending, and touching the paint before the kick out. This notion that players are “forbidden” to pull up and hit the mid-range is a fantasy.

The thing is that we were missing wide open looks from 3 land in the offense. You got hit those shots. The offense is a "read and react" offense and once there is a read then the "plays" that come off of that read are set in motion.

I’m not sure where the disconnect is? Why it seems so difficult for you to understand. But no one ITT is saying he “forbids” players from taking the mid-range shots. What we are saying and what Nate Oats has said himself is that the preferred shots are 3s and layups. He emphasizes those shots and players will generally do what the coach wants them to do.

I don’t care about you watching one practice, I’ve seen 30+ games for 4 years and the lack of quality mid-range shots being pasted up for contested 3s or layups tells me all I need to know about what these players have drilled in their heads daily.

 

[HOUNDZTOOTH1]

I am not a big fan of Analytics although Analytics can identify tendencies, but I favor coaching to the Situation that exists and trending on the field or court of play. That is where really good coaching rises to the top in/to recognizing how to make adjustments.

 

[Slowpoke Catracho]

I’m not sure where the disconnect is? Why it seems so difficult for you to understand. But no one ITT is saying he “forbids” players from taking the mid-range shots. What we are saying and what Nate Oats has said himself is that the preferred shots are 3s and layups. He emphasizes those shots and players will generally do what the coach wants them to do.

I don’t care about you watching one practice, I’ve seen 30+ games for 4 years and the lack of quality mid-range shots being pasted up for contested 3s or layups tells me all I need to know about what these players have drilled in their heads daily.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what "quality" basketball is, but I'll say we are better off now than we were 20 + years ago! If you don't like analytics, then most likely you won't like his tenure at Alabama.

 

[BamaNavyCPO]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what "quality" basketball is, but I'll say we are better off now than we were 20 + years ago! If you don't like analytics, then most likely you won't like his tenure at Alabama.

You make valid points; however, "in-game-adjustments" is where you appear to be missing the point. What's wrong with calling a TO and tell the players that the mid-range is there for the taking. Those rim-protectors were having a field day blocking layups and 3s were clanking off the rim.