Thoughts on the loss to Vanderbilt

[D Isaiah T Billings-Clyde7]

My problem with this is what you guys are saying is that Bama has had the bad luck of having all their highly recruited players that everyone else wanted just not pan out.

Whereas other schools highly ranked recruits does end up panning out. I'm not buying it; these kids were highly ranked for a reason and at times, plays like it.

Player development is on the coach and y'all know that was one of my biggest gripes about Avery. He didn't develop his players.

Rojas was never considered to be good. He should be out there doing all the dirty work and that's it.

Gurly had a two-game stretch where he showed he can score with his back to the basket. For a glimpse, I thought Oats was going to start going to him in the post more but then that quickly went away.

Gurley cannot hold on to the ball consistently. It seriously looked like he had lube on the last few games.

I’m not saying we have a shitty cast of players, I just don’t think we had a 1 seed and conference champion caliber roster this year. I think this team underachieved but not near as significantly

i think we should have finished up right and landed a 5 seed. That’s about the caliber of this roster

 

[pwestbro61]

But who did Alabama really beat to get some of these guys? Would Bediako be starting at Kansas or Kentucky? No. Where else could Miles or or Gurley have gone?

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

But who did Alabama really beat to get some of these guys? Would Bediako be starting at Kansas or Kentucky? No. Where else could Miles or or Gurley have gone?

Don’t know because they came to Bama. Maybe another coaching staff gets the best out of them, develop them, and put them in positions to succeed based off their strengths.

My point is that there are too many of them not living up to expectations for it to be just bad luck recruiting the wrong guys who are not as good as their rankings.

If we have the same problem next year, the problem isn’t the players being recruited…

 

[D Isaiah T Billings-Clyde7]

Don’t know because they came to Bama. Maybe another coaching staff gets the best out of them, develop them, and put them in positions to succeed based off their strengths.

My point is that there are too many of them not living up to expectations for it to be just bad luck recruiting the wrong guys who are not as good as their rankings.

If we have the same problem next year, the problem isn’t the players being recruited…

I just think every player has a ceiling and JQ, Shack, and Ellis are there. They aren’t as good of players as we thought they could be

 

[RollTide15]

Turnovers killed us all season. I would not let 8th graders make the sloppy passes and senseless dribbling that this team does. That should have been cured early in the season by sitting some butts on the bench for long times. Lose some games early to make a point. Then win later with tough players that take care of the ball.

 

[Sweetlou2.0]

Don’t know because they came to Bama. Maybe another coaching staff gets the best out of them, develop them, and put them in positions to succeed based off their strengths.

My point is that there are too many of them not living up to expectations for it to be just bad luck recruiting the wrong guys who are not as good as their rankings.

If we have the same problem next year, the problem isn’t the players being recruited…

If we do the same thing next year, we would have the first back to back to back tournament appearances since…. Forever

 

[D Isaiah T Billings-Clyde7]

If we do the same thing next year, we would have the first back to back to back tournament appearances since…. Forever

But we should be winning natty’s and playing 1935 Princeton offense, which we definitely would be doing if we hadn’t fired Avery for this stuck up HS math teacher

 

[OatsMeal]

My problem with this is what you guys are saying is that Bama has had the bad luck of having all their highly recruited players that everyone else wanted just not pan out.

Whereas other schools highly ranked recruits does end up panning out. I'm not buying it; these kids were highly ranked for a reason and at times, plays like it.

Player development is on the coach and y'all know that was one of my biggest gripes about Avery. He didn't develop his players.

Rojas was never considered to be good. He should be out there doing all the dirty work and that's it.

Gurly had a two-game stretch where he showed he can score with his back to the basket. For a glimpse, I thought Oats was going to start going to him in the post more but then that quickly went away.

outside of JD, how many “highly recruited” players are there? Shack wasn’t highly rated, Keon was Juco guy, miles not highly rated. Gurley played at Furman for 4 years, Gary decently rated 4 star (as mentioned above I think he has to be hurt, we have seen him play well), and JQ yeah he was a highly rated guy but clearly lacks some intangibles and that’s why Jay Wright at Nova showed him the door. Bediako was highly rated and he has played well for a freshman imo. This team was expecting to hav Primo and Burnett as their 2 most highly rated guys. They aren’t here.

My point being yeah this is a relatively talented team, sure, but there’s this narrative across the country that we have this roster full of world beater 5 stars and that’s just not the case with this team.

 

[BamaNavyCPO]

Turnovers killed us all season. I would not let 8th graders make the sloppy passes and senseless dribbling that this team does. That should have been cured early in the season by sitting some butts on the bench for long times. Lose some games early to make a point. Then win later with tough players that take care of the ball.

Agreed. I cringe every time our guys attempt to pass, especially JD. Our guys also love to dribble into danger...i.e. the corners, the baseline, the paint clogged with defenders, which makes them easy to trap. Unforced TOs are momentum killers.

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

outside of JD, how many “highly recruited” players are there? Shack wasn’t highly rated, Keon was Juco guy, miles not highly rated. Gurley played at Furman for 4 years, Gary decently rated 4 star (as mentioned above I think he has to be hurt, we have seen him play well), and JQ yeah he was a highly rated guy but clearly lacks some intangibles and that’s why Jay Wright at Nova showed him the door. Bediako was highly rated and he has played well for a freshman imo. This team was expecting to hav Primo and Burnett as their 2 most highly rated guys. They aren’t here.

My point being yeah this is a relatively talented team, sure, but there’s this narrative across the country that we have this roster full of world beater 5 stars and that’s just not the case with this team.

Shack was a 4 star in all recruiting services, top 100 in a couple of them and top 150 in all. That's highly ranked.

JQ, 5 star. Was great last year but hasn't improved much.

JD, 5 star. Everyone wanted him

Bediako, 4 star top 40 player that everyone wanted.

Ellis was a top 10 JUCO player.

Gary, 4 star.

Alex Tchikou, 4 star, top 40 player that everyone wanted.

Keon Ambrose-Hylton, 4 star just outside the top 100.

Gurly was a transfer a shit ton of teams would have been happy to have.

How much talent do you need? Posters saying it's a lack of talent could not be more wrong. It's a lack of production; the talent is there.

 

[pwestbro61]

Shack was a 4 star in all recruiting services, top 100 in a couple of them and top 150 in all. That's highly ranked.

JQ, 5 star. Was great last year but hasn't improved much.

JD, 5 star. Everyone wanted him

Bediako, 4 star top 40 player that everyone wanted.

Ellis was a top 10 JUCO player.

Gary, 4 star.

Alex Tchikou, 4 star, top 40 player that everyone wanted.

Keon Ambrose-Hylton, 4 star just outside the top 100.

Gurly was a transfer a shit ton of teams would have been happy to have.

How much talent do you need? Posters saying it's a lack of talent could not be more wrong. It's a lack of production; the talent is there.

This is a bit of an exaggeration. “ Everyone” did not want and offer Bediako and Tchikou/ and Alex tore his Achilles/ you do not mention that.

JD could not play much at Villanova and left. JQ was a 5 star in Alabama/ which translates to about a 3.5 star anywhere else. Basketball skill set was incredibly over rated.

Ambrose Hilton/ who knows. Never plays.

I believe there were/are severe team chemistry and attitude issues. Ton of selfish play from some who “ all” think they are “ going to the league” but in reality most will not.

Guys can’t shoot, won’t play consistent D and are turnover machines. Some is on Oats/ but the players bear some responsibility.

 

[Sweetlou2.0]

Shack was a 4 star in all recruiting services, top 100 in a couple of them and top 150 in all. That's highly ranked.

JQ, 5 star. Was great last year but hasn't improved much.

JD, 5 star. Everyone wanted him

Bediako, 4 star top 40 player that everyone wanted.

Ellis was a top 10 JUCO player.

Gary, 4 star.

Alex Tchikou, 4 star, top 40 player that everyone wanted.

Keon Ambrose-Hylton, 4 star just outside the top 100.

Gurly was a transfer a shit ton of teams would have been happy to have.

How much talent do you need? Posters saying it's a lack of talent could not be more wrong. It's a lack of production; the talent is there.

Shack came all the way across the country for a reason. He wasn’t all that highly recruited. Most average SEC teams are full of top 150 players. Top 150 players are hit or miss. A top 10 juco transfer also isn’t exactly top tier either. The fact that you’re throwing Frenchie and Ambrose in here reveals your bias. They’re not even playing dude. This is not some insanely talented team.

 

[OatsMeal]

Shack was a 4 star in all recruiting services, top 100 in a couple of them and top 150 in all. That's highly ranked.

JQ, 5 star. Was great last year but hasn't improved much.

JD, 5 star. Everyone wanted him

Bediako, 4 star top 40 player that everyone wanted.

Ellis was a top 10 JUCO player.

Gary, 4 star.

Alex Tchikou, 4 star, top 40 player that everyone wanted.

Keon Ambrose-Hylton, 4 star just outside the top 100.

Gurly was a transfer a shit ton of teams would have been happy to have.

How much talent do you need? Posters saying it's a lack of talent could not be more wrong. It's a lack of production; the talent is there.

I'm not saying it's a "lack of talent". There are people who insinuate it's elite talent. That's just not the case. Agree to disagree. I'm not saying your wrong on lack of production/development. That could be the case and I'm hoping it's not true. This team is not littered with elite talent though.

Now we have a top 4 class coming in next year where not one player is ranked outside the top 70 on rivals. You add a healthy Burnett to that, and if we aren't back toward the top of the SEC then I hear you. But right now we don't have an uber talented roster, just a decent one.

 

[OatsMeal]

Shack came all the way across the country for a reason. He wasn’t all that highly recruited. Most average SEC teams are full of top 150 players. Top 150 players are hit or miss. A top 10 juco transfer also isn’t exactly top tier either. The fact that you’re throwing Frenchie and Ambrose in here reveals your bias. They’re not even playing dude. This is not some insanely talented team.

Shacks best offers were Alabama Georgetown and K State

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

This is a bit of an exaggeration. “ Everyone” did not want and offer Bediako and Tchikou/ and Alex tore his Achilles/ you do not mention that.

JD could not play much at Villanova and left. JQ was a 5 star in Alabama/ which translates to about a 3.5 star anywhere else. Basketball skill set was incredibly over rated.

Ambrose Hilton/ who knows. Never plays.

I believe there were/are severe team chemistry and attitude issues. Ton of selfish play from some who “ all” think they are “ going to the league” but in reality most will not.

Guys can’t shoot, won’t play consistent D and are turnover machines. Some is on Oats/ but the players bear some responsibility.

You're making excuses; they were talented enough when recruited to give Bama a top 15 preseason ranking.

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

Shack came all the way across the country for a reason. He wasn’t all that highly recruited. Most average SEC teams are full of top 150 players. Top 150 players are hit or miss. A top 10 juco transfer also isn’t exactly top tier either. The fact that you’re throwing Frenchie and Ambrose in here reveals your bias. They’re not even playing dude. This is not some insanely talented team.

They are on the team and they were highly ranked. That's not a bias that's fact and it goes to my point that talent is on this team and it's not being developed.

 

[jtr4dad]

This is a bit of an exaggeration. “ Everyone” did not want and offer Bediako and Tchikou/ and Alex tore his Achilles/ you do not mention that.

JD could not play much at Villanova and left. JQ was a 5 star in Alabama/ which translates to about a 3.5 star anywhere else. Basketball skill set was incredibly over rated.

Ambrose Hilton/ who knows. Never plays.

I believe there were/are severe team chemistry and attitude issues. Ton of selfish play from some who “ all” think they are “ going to the league” but in reality most will not.

Guys can’t shoot, won’t play consistent D and are turnover machines. Some is on Oats/ but the players bear some responsibility.

I've seen you beat the drum for Alabama high school basketball players being overrated for years. Over that same time span you have been calling for Kristi Curry's firing as our women's basketball coach. One of your main talking points has been that you don't think she signs enough in-state players. Why would you want her to sign more of them if Alabama high school talent is so over rated?

 

[michael1965]

I’m thinking that going to the big dance 5 times in a 7 year career is pretty dang good. I’m thinking that not having a bunch of blow out wins affects playing time and thus development for the younger guys. I’m thinking that playing the most difficult schedule in the country makes the team look worse than it is. And are leaders born that way or do they develop.?

 

[D Isaiah T Billings-Clyde7]

Shack was a 4 star in all recruiting services, top 100 in a couple of them and top 150 in all. That's highly ranked.

JQ, 5 star. Was great last year but hasn't improved much.

JD, 5 star. Everyone wanted him

Bediako, 4 star top 40 player that everyone wanted.

Ellis was a top 10 JUCO player.

Gary, 4 star.

Alex Tchikou, 4 star, top 40 player that everyone wanted.

Keon Ambrose-Hylton, 4 star just outside the top 100.

Gurly was a transfer a shit ton of teams would have been happy to have.

How much talent do you need? Posters saying it's a lack of talent could not be more wrong. It's a lack of production; the talent is there.

There’s talent, but it’s not a team that should be like 27-4 based on its talent. We probably are a 22-9 4-5 seed type team talent wise. A lot of guys have a limit to their development.. That’s what separates nba talent from good college talent. We’ve gotten all Shack, Ellis, Quinerly, Rojas are capable of giving us. Some others have room for growth but was it supposed to all happen by their freshman/sophomore season? We have the type talent that needs 3-4 years in college to reach the point they are huge production guys. We don’t have guys that will walk into the nba next year. There’s a gulf between guys like Jabari Smith and guys we have. Surely you admit there’s a difference there? Is Jabari a product of Bruce Pearls development or is he just talented as shit?

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

There’s talent, but it’s not a team that should be like 27-4 based on its talent. We probably are a 22-9 4-5 seed type team talent wise. A lot of guys have a limit to their development.. That’s what separates nba talent from good college talent. We’ve gotten all Shack, Ellis, Quinerly, Rojas are capable of giving us. Some others have room for growth but was it supposed to all happen by their freshman/sophomore season? We have the type talent that needs 3-4 years in college to reach the point they are huge production guys. We don’t have guys that will walk into the nba next year. There’s a gulf between guys like Jabari Smith and guys we have. Surely you admit there’s a difference there? Is Jabari a product of Bruce Pearls development or is he just talented as shit?

No we don't have a JS on this team but neither do 99% of the teams in the country. I personally think Pearl is a much better coach than Oats so it's not fair to compare, but I do think Pearl is developing his players. Kessler barely saw the court at North Carolina; he's a player of the year candidate because Pearl knows how to develop and put his players in position to succeed.

I'm not saying this team should be 27-5, but 8 maybe 9 losses and a deep run in the SECT were expectations. Not this shit...

 

[Sweetlou2.0]

They are on the team and they were highly ranked. That's not a bias that's fact and it goes to my point that talent is on this team and it's not being developed.

My point is “highly ranked” is quite a broad spectrum. If we’re considering top 10 juco players and top 150 high school recruits to be highly ranked, most very pedestrian programs are laden with that type of player

 

[Sweetlou2.0]

They are on the team and they were highly ranked. That's not a bias that's fact and it goes to my point that talent is on this team and it's not being developed.

They’re not talented enough to see the floor on a team that has a weak front court.

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

My point is “highly ranked” is quite a broad spectrum. If we’re considering top 10 juco players and top 150 high school recruits to be highly ranked, most very pedestrian programs are laden with that type of player

Laden? You don't follow college basketball recruiting much if that is what you think. The top BB programs yes, but no, pedestrian programs are not laden with this kind of talent. And if they are and they are still pedestrian, the coach isn't there long...

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

They’re not talented enough to see the floor on a team that has a weak front court.

Goes to my point of lack of development....

 

[pwestbro61]

They are on the team and they were highly ranked. That's not a bias that's fact and it goes to my point that talent is on this team and it's not being developed.

Rankings mean virtually nothing in many cases. Many “ 4 star” dudes are over rated and never contribute anything. Happens all the time.
I have some concerns with Oats but not gonna absolve some of these players and their contributions to our disappointment.

 

[pwestbro61]

Goes to my point of lack of development....

Is it possible they were simply never that good?

 

[pwestbro61]

I've seen you beat the drum for Alabama high school basketball players being overrated for years. Over that same time span you have been calling for Kristi Curry's firing as our women's basketball coach. One of your main talking points has been that you don't think she signs enough in-state players. Why would you want her to sign more of them if Alabama high school talent is so over rated?

Talking about the boys basketball in Alabama. Not the girls. Girls talent in Alabama is good enough to win but they all leave.
State of Alabama boys high school basketball is simply not very good compared to other states.

 

[D Isaiah T Billings-Clyde7]

No we don't have a JS on this team but neither do 99% of the teams in the country. I personally think Pearl is a much better coach than Oats so it's not fair to compare, but I do think Pearl is developing his players. Kessler barely saw the court at North Carolina; he's a player of the year candidate because Pearl knows how to develop and put his players in position to succeed.

I'm not saying this team should be 27-5, but 8 maybe 9 losses and a deep run in the SECT were expectations. Not this shit...

Maybe he is way better than oats but he must have struggled to “put his players in position to succeed” all the years he missed the tournament. His current team does a lot of the same stupid stuff ours does and are fading late.

We’re in agreement that this team let some games go they had no business in losing this year and we fell a bit short of where we should have been but I think it’s a little ridiculous to draw the conclusion oats can’t hack it based on this team.

 

[pwestbro61]

Shack came all the way across the country for a reason. He wasn’t all that highly recruited. Most average SEC teams are full of top 150 players. Top 150 players are hit or miss. A top 10 juco transfer also isn’t exactly top tier either. The fact that you’re throwing Frenchie and Ambrose in here reveals your bias. They’re not even playing dude. This is not some insanely talented team.

Bingo/ spot on correct.

 

[Sweetlou2.0]

Goes to my point of lack of development....

Frenchie has been injured the entire time he’s been here. Difficult to develop if he’s hurt. You and I both know Bigs like Ambrose often don’t pan out. I follow plenty of college basketball recruiting. Laden may be a bit exaggerated I admit. My point is they have those players. The core problem here is you are clearly anti Oats and I just can’t wrap my head around how any Bama fan could be so critical of the guy who has done what no one has been able to do in over 15 years in back to back seasons. A year ago he did what no one has done at Bama since 91. It’s just mind boggling to me.

 

[Sweetlou2.0]

Maybe he is way better than oats but he must have struggled to “put his players in position to succeed” all the years he missed the tournament. His current team does a lot of the same stupid stuff ours does and are fading late.

We’re in agreement that this team let some games go they had no business in losing this year and we fell a bit short of where we should have been but I think it’s a little ridiculous to draw the conclusion oats can’t hack it based on this team.

Pearl had a Final Four run with a team that was decent but not great all year. Outside of that… fairly pedestrian.

 

[D Isaiah T Billings-Clyde7]

Rankings mean virtually nothing in many cases. Many “ 4 star” dudes are over rated and never contribute anything. Happens all the time.
I have some concerns with Oats but not gonna absolve some of these players and their contributions to our disappointment.

Recruiting services have the football ratings honed in way better than bball. The 1 and done nba talent is obvious but beyond that, a ton of these kids play guard in HS at 6’6” and never have to really develop their skill set bc they have such a built in advantage at the HS level. It takes a lot of them time to develop when that advantage is gone

 

[D Isaiah T Billings-Clyde7]

Frenchie has been injured the entire time he’s been here. Difficult to develop if he’s hurt. You and I both know Bigs like Ambrose often don’t pan out. I follow plenty of college basketball recruiting. Laden may be a bit exaggerated I admit. My point is they have those players. The core problem here is you are clearly anti Oats and I just can’t wrap my head around how any Bama fan could be so critical of the guy who has done what no one has been able to do in over 15 years in back to back seasons. A year ago he did what no one has done at Bama since 91. It’s just mind boggling to me.

A year ago he knew how to put his players in position to succeed and he forgot in the off-season

 

[Sweetlou2.0]

A year ago he knew how to put his players in position to succeed and he forgot in the off-season

And the reverse for pearl.

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

Rankings mean virtually nothing in many cases. Many “ 4 star” dudes are over rated and never contribute anything. Happens all the time.
I have some concerns with Oats but not gonna absolve some of these players and their contributions to our disappointment.

But why do other programs not have this many “misses?” I know recruiting ranking sometimes miss, but is it not concerning how many of Bama players end up as “misses”?

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

Maybe he is way better than oats but he must have struggled to “put his players in position to succeed” all the years he missed the tournament. His current team does a lot of the same stupid stuff ours does and are fading late.

We’re in agreement that this team let some games go they had no business in losing this year and we fell a bit short of where we should have been but I think it’s a little ridiculous to draw the conclusion oats can’t hack it based on this team.

I think Pearl is a better coach and it's not close right now. Not really wanting to get into all the reasons why I believe that but it's my opinion.

I think Oats can hack it if he is willing to learn and grow as a coach. Right now, I have my concerns if he is too stubborn to admit his style of play needs to grow into something more.

 

[G.O.A.T-23]

Pearl had a Final Four run with a team that was decent but not great all year. Outside of that… fairly pedestrian.

Um, no. You might want to check his Tennessee teams. He had them on pace to compete for Final Fours before he ended up in trouble.

He took over the worse basketball program in the SEC and turned it into a program we as Alabama fans envy. He's raised the bar in this state. You might not like him but it's hard to debate he's a really good coach.

 

[D Isaiah T Billings-Clyde7]

Um, no. You might want to check his Tennessee teams. He had them on pace to compete for Final Fours before he ended up in trouble.

He took over the worse basketball program in the SEC and turned it into a program we as Alabama fans envy. He's raised the bar in this state. You might not like him but it's hard to debate he's a really good coach.

He is a really good coach. But he has had many seasons that look like ours this year, and many that were worse… That’s the entire point I try to make. A season like this one being an awful down year is a good thing…. We just had a season like theirs last year

 

[Sweetlou2.0]

Um, no. You might want to check his Tennessee teams. He had them on pace to compete for Final Fours before he ended up in trouble.

He took over the worse basketball program in the SEC and turned it into a program we as Alabama fans envy. He's raised the bar in this state. You might not like him but it's hard to debate he's a really good coach.

I’m talking about specifically his time at auburn. I envy their final 4 run, but outside of that. What’s to envy?

 

[Sweetlou2.0]

But why do other programs not have this many “misses?” I know recruiting ranking sometimes miss, but is it not concerning how many of Bama players end up as “misses”?

They do. Plenty of misses every year all over the country