holt
- Thread starter mr4bama
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Saw something this morning on Twitter but wasn’t sure if it was true. Eventually we will need to recruit some guys like him that can be developed into what we need and develop them.
After watching this tourney, I 100% believe you have to mix in top 50 recruits and experienced transfers. For the top programs it’s almost a waste of a scholarship to have players you “hope” develop. I wish him luck and think he’ll be a good player but just not a fit for what we need right now.
Everybody can’t just mix in top 50 recruits. The 4 teams in the final 4 are 3 of the bluest of blue bloods. And Villanova is the most successful team in the last 10-15 years. Villanova is doing exactly what you said won’t work. And the other 3 can do whatever they want. We aren’t the other 3. If we don’t develop some kids, we will have some lean years in the mix.
I really hate that. I honestly feel like in 3-5 years no coach who recruits at a high level will try to sign any kid that isn't a top 30 prospect. Why would you? Could be something about the program Holt feels isn't right for him but looking at overall play it isn't obvious that he deserves significantly more playing time which every kid wants. Why not just wait and recruit these kids as 20 year olds as they leave programs like UTEP, UCF, MTSU, etc.???
So are you saying don't sign Bruner or Gurley and give those minutes to Tchikou, Hylton and Holt so that they develop?
No. I’m saying we can’t 100% depend on transfers and highly ranked recruits. They are a necessity but they can’t be all of it. What happens when you miss on too many of them? You need kids on the roster that you are developing that will be there. There have to be kids that fit the system in some way and are developed in other ways to become more complete players and help. It’s a process.
Unless I missed somebody Miles and Bediako are the only two freshmen Oats has signed that remain on this team. Given what Gurley and Bruner provided it would be interesting to see where we'd be heading into next season with a more experienced Hylton, Tchikou, and Holt. However, there is no guarantee that they'd still hang around. Would like to see what the avg amount of turnover is in SEC programs right now.
I can go back and forth on this all day. College Basketball has completely changed between the Transfer portal and NIL. The idea that you think kids will “stay” to develop all 4 years especially players that ride the bench is crazy. They know now if they aren’t getting playing time to just transfer to where they can, and build their brand. I actually love the way Oats is going about this. Recruit a few top HS players (miller,Bradley) and then hit the transfer portal for your experience.
This is the dark side of the free agency portal that some of us tried to point out. There will soon be no place in competitive Div 1 athletics for the kid that can grow into a good to great player in 3 or 4 years or who simply wants the full college experience at one school. Either the kid is crazy good and is gone to the pro leagues asap or within a couple years he's encouraged to find playing time somewhere else.
This portal deal will need handrails or the kids it was to help will find themselves pushed out unless they're willing to take a dramatic step down in competition.
Football is a little bit of a different animal as 3 year projects will still have a place in a program that can afford the luxury of waiting. Basketball roster management will look like changing up teams at the rec center.
Most teams are just temporary relay stations. No sense getting attached to any one player because if they are halfway decent, they're gone in a year or two.
You have to use the portal. But at some point, you have to retain a couple kids that can help in some way as a freshman and develop them. If you can do that with 1-2 kids a year, then it would help a ton in the long run. Not every kid will jump ship. Villanova has been doing it for years with a huge portion of their roster. So surely we can figure out 1-2 kids a year.
He also has a couple guys using a bonus Covid year, including Gillespie the rock solid point guard that is mentally on another planet than just about any college PG..
Also, Wright has the leeway to maybe have a rebuild year or 2 while he develops talent. In the current climate in college and pro athletics, new coaches have pressure to win big within 3 years and developmental players aren’t exactly the path to instant success… A top recruiting class mixed with experienced guys out of the portal, while not guaranteed, is more likely to produce instant results.
The good thing about the portal is you do get a lot of guys that have 2-3 years left and are locked in once they have used their free transfer. So that element can still be there. I’m pretty sure a few of the guys we are in on in the portal have 3 years remaining. I think that’s the best of both worlds
I don’t completely disagree with your points just think coaches have a lot of pressure to win now and don’t get the time to build a culture and develop project recruits anymore. So many of the best programs right now have 15-20+ year head coaches and a lot of them didn’t have immediate success. Hell some didn’t reach their current level in their first decade+.
I hate to see that. I think he could have developed into a solid player for us. I feel the same about Tchikou.
Holt was ~37-38% three point shooter in high school and was signed to do the same at Bama. He shot something like 19% last season. Yes, 19%.
To be fair to holt, he didn’t exactly get the “shoot to get hot shoot to stay hot” treatment. I would guess less than 25 attempts on the season. However, ATLEAST 10 air balls.
At least 10 air balls even though his shots were relatively open looks.
So many top college players now want immediate playing time and NIL money as soon as they step on campus. But many seem to forget they need to deliver on their end too. Programs are now expecting top rated kids to deliver immediate results. Holt simply failed to deliver.
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He doesn’t need much leeway. They are the standard right now and people don’t even realize it.
Oh they are. Jay Wright may be the best in the game. My point, 5 years to win regular season conference, 8 years to get to first final 4, 15 to win first championship. Just saying, it’s not instant
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I’m not asking for instant. It’s nice. I’m good with improvement. And the right culture year after year.
He didn’t know how to put his players in position to succeed. Failed to adjust his entire system to fit his current players
That is before Duke booster’s started writing big checks. And Coach K was still unable to intimidate officials.
I hate to see players transfer out, especially if they are being asked to leave to make room for “better” players.
I would like to see players you recruited to your program being allowed to grow. Most will never grow into an all-conference player but you need veteran players that just know what to do.
I would like to see players you recruited to your program being allowed to grow. Most will never grow into an all-conference player but you need veteran players that just know what to do.
It's funny that I used Coach K's record after 4-5 years as my point about keeping Avery and all anyone said was Coach Johnson isn't Coach K and never will be.
Alabama won an NCAA Tournament game for the first time in 12 years under Avery and Bama fires him the following season. Alabama wins the SEC under Oats, thanks largely to players Avery brought in. I was one of the posters calling for CAJ to be let go after the NIT loss, but maybe he should get more credit for pointing this Alabama program in the right direction than fans give him.
Me too. I really would. But like I said above the landscape is changing. Top players out of high school like Holt (#81 overall) now want immediate playing time and don't want to take the time to develop. So, I feel like coaches are adapting to this and changing their expectation when they sign top rated kids. Live up to the expectations or I'll find someone else who can. Most players have become completely impatient when it comes to playing time so why shouldn't coaches adjust their expectations as well?
Bc maybe Holt could help us next year? Maybe he’s stay 3-4 years and develop and become a really good player. You don’t need ever last guy on scholarship to be some elite guy, that’s when they all leave. If Holt left on his own, I get it. If he was pushed out, I don’t.
I don’t disagree with this. I think Avery struggles as a coach, but the excitement he brought along with recruiting was a shot in the arm to the program.
I really thought Grant could’ve become a long term successful coach at Bama but I swear he is the least lucky coach in sports history
Yeah, and that's the big unknown. Again, personally, I don't like all of this transfer in/out stuff. I'd prefer Oats field a team of predominantly 'Bama guys' who have been with the program for at least 2-3 years. But the landscape has changed as these kids expect immediate playing but don't necessarily won't to work for it. I don't know if this was the case with Holt. I'm just speaking in generalities here. .
Grant has been unlucky. He had a team at Dayton that looked like a Final Four team, but COVID shut the season down. I think he's a better coach than Avery but his personality is so dry that he misses out on recruits he could have.
That was the latest example in a string of bad luck in his career.
i would have liked grant as an assistant coach. he does not seem to be cut out as a head coach. he does seem to be a great guy.
I liked Grant but his personality just didn’t fit big time bb. Avery was a breathe of fresh air, high energy, good recruiter. I would have liked to see him in an admin role around the program. He brought in some good players and CNO has given him kudos for that.
I disagree with him not being cut out as a HC. That makes little sense to me considering he won at the level good enough to be the hot hire when Alabama took him from VCU. He won 20+ games three seasons in a row at Alabama and he had one of the favorites to get to the Final Four at Dayton.
Grant can coach and coach very well, what he needed at a program like Alabama was someone on his staff that did all the bells and whistles Alabama fans wanted from their coach.
Yeah not sure if Holt was asked to leave or chose to leave. Can't blame him if he wants out. Had to be frustrating for him to watch JD get so many more minutes in front of him constantly turning the ball over and consistently lost on defense. While Holt struggled offensively I thought he was one of our better defensive guards.
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