It’s drive and kick. I wouldn’t call it an offense in terms of the actual offense getting guys open. It’s just spacing and players getting people open using dribble penetration. That’s why when teams kept us from running and could guard the ball without helping a ton, we struggled. We should have better ball handlers and finishers coming, which will help in the half court. But I’d still like to see more motion and more of an offense at times.
If he doesn’t care, Bama would take more of them. And he wouldn’t talk only about threes, layups and free throws. I bet we took less the one a game and that’s stretching it.
CNO has not said don't take midrange jumpers... players take them ever game... a view of some losses
Yes Petty being at the center of that. Also can say Herb blasting in the lane out of control sometimes contributed to it as well.
Those guys werent mid range guys. Herbs a slasher and Petty is catch shoot guy. I think they will be replaced with guys that can hit those mid range jumpers. All the bigs Oats have recruited have that in their game. So I agree that its an issue but i believe youll see more once Oats has a rotation of his guys
Totally agree on Herb, but disagree on Petty. He could hit the open midrange jumper. Shack could as well as Bruner and Reese.
Sure it is. It's called the "Dribble Drive Offense" and the spacing and Kick is part of the offense. He's just modified it. Sometimes we even come out in 5-out formation.
www.breakthroughbasketball.com
Ellis was excellent at beating his man off the dribble. Petty could beat his man one on one but lacked the ability to finish around the rim consistently. We should be excellent next year with the addition of JD finishing at the rim. JQ is elite at finishing at the rim with his array of finishes. Hence the self proclaimed term "Jelly" which he patented.
www.hoopsking.com
Could not disagree more. 3-pointers and close shots are the wave of the future. If you shoot 50 2-point midrangers and hit 40%, you get 40 points. If you shoot 50 3-pointers and hit 30%, you get 45 points. You score more hitting less shots with 3-pointers and missing midrangers is a waste of time. Just dribble back a few feet and shoot a three.
Talk about an overkill, drama queen response. I guess Baylor was running their version of the I-formation when the won the Natty. Playing against another I-Formation team.
I know what it’s called. You literally said sets take away from flow. You were complaining about sets. We run sets too. 4 people go set up in a spot and one guy tries to beat his man off the dribble. I’ll take some true sets over that some times.Sure it is. It's called the "Dribble Drive Offense" and the spacing and Kick is part of the offense. He's just modified it. Sometimes we even come out in 5-out formation.
Memphis Dribble Drive Motion Offense with Diagrams, Animations, and Video
I'm talking about "plays", I guess I should've clarified. That there are no specific plays "set play" for any specific player. CNO said in his interview that "sets" take away from the flow of the game.
You’re wasting your time quoting actual stats/analytics. The ones saying we should take more midrange jumpers don’t respond to the posts with actual logic applied.
But they can be beneficial. I’d rather not depend on either one 100% of the time. We are better in transition but we still need to improve in the half court without it just being personnel improvement. We are pretty much a zone offense that depends 100% on penetration. More player and ball movement would be beneficial at times.
You’re comparing the midrange to the 3. Take away the highly contested layups that are not good shots and instead stop and take a mid range shot. That’s what this is about. Nobody is saying pass up an open 3 to take a midrange 2. But pass up the crazy contested layup falling down out of bounds and just stop and shoot an open shot.
I think the "layup falling down shots" are due to too much over penetration by whoever is driving. So, maybe they aren't taking the shot when it is presented. So many times it could be by player choice. You notice they whoever is driving with the ball depends a lot on the underneath baseline pass to the corner instead of making a quick decision on going to the basket. Many times JQ deferred to that pass or getting blocked when he would drive too deep against a double team. Many times he could've passed or even stopped and popped, but he ended up in no mans land under the hoop.
I’ve watched two seasons of it. I can’t blame that part on the player anymore. I have to assume it’s what they are being taught to do. I’ve heard Oats say many times, layups, threes and free throws...
And we aren’t going to get it sometimes with our system unless our guys can consistently beat their defender. It’s all about beating them off the dribble. I prefer to have the help moving and not standing dead still always ready to help.
GS shot more midrange shots than any team in the NBA during their championship runs. No one is saying to abandon shooting threes, and of course if you can get all the way to the basket and get a layup it's the best shot on the court, that goes without saying. Many ITT are responding as if we are saying shot shooting threes, that is far from the case.
That's fair, I created the post to open up the discussion. Just because I don't agree with everything CNO is about does not mean I don't think he's a good coach. I used the NCG as a reference because both of those teams play a similar style to the one Oats want to play, Baylor lead the country in 3 point shooting. I just think the biggest difference as to why they were the two best teams all year is their willingness to take the shot that is given to them, that includes the midrange.
Well we get to the elite 8 this year if we hit 2 more free throws and would have had an excellent chance to beat Michigan. You‘re entitled to your opinion, it’s just not shared by most of us who’ve been watching Bama basketball since CM Newton....
I would say Petty, Shack, Reese, Quinerly, Primo. And Ellis made a lot of midrange shots in his juco highlights
Good point on making the pass off the drive. I do think Oats would prefer that rather than contested layup through 3 guys.It sounds like you’re talking about a pull-up 2, which is one of the least effective shots in basketball (0.79 PPS), likely because human nature is to drive until you’re contested and then you end up with a contested midrange jumper off the dribble.
(link) https://shottracker.com/articles/analytics-shot-selection
I get everyone’s frustration seeing guys barrel down the lane into 2-3 defenders and then throw up some garbage, and the obvious question is why did he do that, but the likely better answer is for the player to kick to an open guy (those 2-3 guys should’ve been guarding someone) for a catch and shoot, or secondary drive, rather than to try and take a 15 footer on the move.
Nonetheless guys are going to make miscalculations and think they can get all the way sometimes and end up being wrong. I know I have tried to pull off shots on the golf course that I thought were a good idea and ended up biting me in the butt plenty of times
He obviously prefers the kick out 3. That’s the whole issue. Teams quit helping. The in ball defender knows it’s a 3 or we put it on the floor and we are going all the way to the rim. It would help if there was a third dimension. The defender doesn’t have to guard us when we put it in the floor, they can just run to the rim and wait.It sounds like you’re talking about a pull-up 2, which is one of the least effective shots in basketball (0.79 PPS), likely because human nature is to drive until you’re contested and then you end up with a contested midrange jumper off the dribble.
(link) https://shottracker.com/articles/analytics-shot-selection
I get everyone’s frustration seeing guys barrel down the lane into 2-3 defenders and then throw up some garbage, and the obvious question is why did he do that, but the likely better answer is for the player to kick to an open guy (those 2-3 guys should’ve been guarding someone) for a catch and shoot, or secondary drive, rather than to try and take a 15 footer on the move.
Nonetheless guys are going to make miscalculations and think they can get all the way sometimes and end up being wrong. I know I have tried to pull off shots on the golf course that I thought were a good idea and ended up biting me in the butt plenty of times
I agree with needing to adapt the attack to the defenses reaction. IMO though the problem with those wild layups is not the on ball defender, it’s the 2-3 others that are sometimes waiting at the rim. So the challenge is on the players (both driver and spot up guys) to make the other team pay for helping down, which should leave someone open.
But it’s not the 2-3 others helping many times. Lots of teams just quit helping off the shooters against us and said beat us 1 on 1 at the rim. Now better players can fix that...so hopefully that’ll be the case. But even still, we could adapt some on offense.
